John Barrowman

Alan Duncan: John, thanks so much for your time. You’re a gifted performer in a wide variety of performance genres, especially song and dance. I believe you discovered your gift on a record store counter at around 8 years of age, is that right?

John Barrowman: That’s right I was actually about 4 or 5 and my mother was a partner in a record store; she & one of her girlfriends in Glasgow. I used to come from school, I’d get on the bus and I would stop by my Grans dry cleaning store in Shettleston and I’d go in and my Gran would give me money and I’d go get a lucky bag and I would take that with the sweets in it and I would walk from the dry cleaners to the record store. I’d arrive, I’d pop a little bon bon in my mouth get a little rhythm going and I’d step up on the counter and I’d start singing all the top ten hits.

AD: So if you tell us what was on the top ten at the time will that be giving your age away?

I will tell you that at number 1 was a Jimmy Osmond tune… like, Mother! you should have known I was gay then, cos I used to love Jimmy Osmond’s outfits and I wanted them! And I used to tell my Gran, ‘when I’m famous Gran, you can make me one of those outfits!’ No. 2 or 3 (on the charts) was a song called Milly Molly Mandy by Glenn Poole and then there was also Rolf Harris with Two Little Boys. So yeah I remember some of them, but those are the ones that used to sing quite often.

AD: So now being in your mid 30’s, you have a white flared cat- suit with sequins do you?

(laughs) I actually have it but I only wear it on a Friday night; special occasions.


AD: Well you’ve worked with quite a few musical theatre icons over the years… Betty Buckley, Carol Burnett, Tyne Daley…

Aaron Hughes: Elaine Paige!

Just a few of the biggies…


AD: I’ve seen Elaine quoted as being your Guardian Angel. Why is that?

Well… I don’t get to talk to her very often, but she gave me my start basically! I was in Anything Goes (with Elaine) in 1989 and anytime I’m in something she comes to see it. She said to me privately once “anytime I see you John, on television or when you’re on a show and you’re billed, I always think to myself “That’s my boy!”

AD: Awww! Bless!

AH: actually in my hallway at home boasts a poster of you and Betty Buckley in Sunset Boulevard and its great how quite a few of the big names appear to have taken you under their wing.

Yeah it is. I mean Betty, again, was a lovely lady. She was the one who actually said in an American interview “He’s the best leading man I’ve ever had” and I asked her, “well how can you make that statement”? And she said “because you’re gracious” and she said “you give as much of yourself to the role and to your co-star as you do… to the performance you give on stage, and not many people would do that.” And in return she said, “I’m not exactly the most giving of performers at times but it forces me to give right back to you and I think that’s a beautiful thing”.  So, I don’t know what it is, I don’t know what it is that people see (in me), I don’t know what it is that makes me… you know what they say, having that special knack. I credit my mom & dad for it in a way, because they brought me up to be a good person and I think if you just enjoy what you do and have fun doing it and you’re nice to people then, you’re gonna infect people really quickly. It’s like playing tennis, they’re gonna whack it right back at ya.

AH: I was reading a review by London Columnist Mark Shenton on your recent London cabaret season at Pizza on the Park, and he was saying that it, in his words “it came as no surprise to anyone in the business, except maybe a few ‘matinee matrons’, that you were gay, and that you were very up front and it made for a very honest approach”.

Great! You know that’s kinda what I like to do anyway, why hide behind a wall? It was really over the last couple of years I’ve really kind of just (been) out front and speaking about it publicly because I never thought it was an issue. Going back, my family have always known; people that I thought have needed to know and (are) close to me. People who… have wives and husbands and things like that, they don’t go walking around saying ‘oh hi I’m so & so and I’m straight…’ I just lived my life and I always feel that if you live your life and you live it honestly and are good to people around you that everything will be OK. But … it was about 6 months before Dr Who, someone asked me a question and I just blatantly spoke out about it and the guys mouth dropped to the floor, and I’m like… “what??”… well he had never spoken about this before, I  said “Come on!” I said, “Please, I’m 36/37”… I was 37 years old at the time, “I’m not married to a woman and I’m I musical theatre! What other clue to you need??”

AH: Go Figure!

AD: Yeah get your head out of the sand!

Get your head our of your own !@#*&*) and wake up and smell the coffee! I’ve been overwhelmed by it in a sense because… a lot of people said “OMG its gonna change your career”, and its gonna do this and you know what, if it does it does and if it doesn’t then … Put it this way, some (people these days) still are bigoted but most people in the general public, they really don’t care, they don’t care what you do, and really it shouldn’t matter what you do in your bedroom as opposed to what you do for your job.

AD: Hear hear, good on you! Being Scottish born and having lived in the US from a young age, you’re perhaps in a unique position to compare the two cultures close at hand. Have you found any difference between the US & UK in the approach to sexuality, because we tend to get the impression that the US is a little bit more conservative where as the UK is almost like the quintessentially camp country.

The US is more conservative in that sense and that’s unfortunate that we have a president who’s a complete pinhead! There’s a section of the American public that are not accepting, but the majority of  Americans, and this is what I say in the cabaret… Look I’m proud to be an American, I’m also proud to be a Brit, and don’t hate the people in the country, just hate the President, because he’s the one who’s the jerk at the moment.  There’s a minority of people in the States who are those kind of hating people and its not just gay people they hate, they hate black people, they hate Jewish people, they hate any type of ethnic minority, but it hasn’t really affected me that badly, touch wood, in the States because when I released the John Barrowman Swings Cole Porter Album, for a musical theatre performer I was overwhelmed because the album itself went to number 33 in the Billboard Jazz Charts and held there for a while and that’s unheard of.

AH: We have that CD in front of us now and I’ve been listening to your “Reflections from Broadway” and your EP “Aspects of Lloyd Webber”. I gotta say I love the Cole Porter stuff and the big band sound is fab!

Yeah, it was a great album to do and as with the cabaret, I have a history with Cole Porter. I have since 1989,  and I thought what better to do but an album of the songs of a man who has given me a lot of opportunity and a lot of breaks and I started looking into what I call the Cole Porter bible and looking at all of the music he has written and the lyrics. The more I looked at it the more I realised that he was giving us an autobiographical look into his life through his lyrics and through his songs. I did some research into the songs and… ones that connected with me, those were the ones that I put on the album. For instance with Cole Porter, in “What is this thing called Love”, he’s continually questioning… what love is to him because he was absolutely- and this is where love has no boundaries- Cole Porter was a gay man, who married a woman, but was so in love with her- and his love went beyond a sexual love- yet he still has his relationship with men. I’m not saying that’s something that somebody should do, but it showed you the dilemma that he was in because he absolutely adored this woman, but yet he had this other side … the need that he had to fulfil and it caused a lot of turmoil in his life. He got through that through his songs and his lyrics, that’s why I just wanted to emulate the man because I just think he’s a brilliant song writer & composer.

AH: That’s a good segue into De-lovely, as I was listening to the song you did with Kevin Kline. It sounds like it was a great experience for a lot of people involved, did you find it a really good mix of stage people, popular artists and movie people?

I was the only musical theatre performer who had a solo spot doing Night & day with Kevin Kline.  I was what they call one of the “featured artists” and the rest of the singers were all pop singers and when the reviews came out for the movie a lot of the reviewers said that the only person who should actually be singing this music is John Barrowman. I’m not saying I didn’t enjoy Alanis Morrisette’s version or  Robbie Williams version or Natalie Cole’s version, but you know some people wanted to hear the more traditional way that they were sung but yet those other artists opened the door to a whole new generation of listeners for Cole Porter because a lot of people who like those pop singers, will only hear the Cole Porter music because they like the pop singers. So it was great for a lot of us,  I got to go to the Cannes Film Festival to sing and perform with all the other artists.  I was flown to New York for the premiere. It was my dream to do an MGM movie and De-Lovely made that dream come true, so it was great.

AH: You’ve worked across many different media, travelling the world with your cabaret show, also stage, film, TV and in the recording studio for your albums. Have you found working across the different mediums to be a good experience?

I have, I’ve kinda always based my career on something: its called “Fun” and I do things because I have fun or because I want to do them. If somebody pressures me into doing something it’s a complete turn off for me. So I’m the one who makes the decisions and you know a lot of people said to me a while back, “You gotta decide, you gotta do this or you gotta do that” and I just thought, you know what, excuse my French, “Screw you!” I can do what I want to do. If its going to be a tough road then fine, I’m going to be happy if that road is going to be tough but if it works out then, as you say “good on ya!” You know… I’m not out to become famous. If fame comes with the work that I do then I am honoured and happy with that, and thank goodness, that’s the icing on the cake. But I came into this industry because I love the art of performing and I love making people laugh or cry, making them happy and I want to have a career with longevity and to be proud of my career. I do workshops with Beverley Holt,  called Dreamers Workshops and I always tell the kids on the first day, if you want to become famous,  go and try to get on Pop Idol or some reality TV show, you’ll have your 15 mins of fame, and then you’ll be forgotten about within 2 years and you’ll probably get rich very quickly, but if you wanna have a career in this business industry, then you gotta work damn hard and you have to kind of map it all out for yourself . That’s kind of the philosophy I’ve had all my life.

AH: And of course you were recently in the “Producers” film. Having looked at some of the online interviews,  I loved Mel Brooks’ quote when he said “You walked in fully blonde and it must have been the first time a room full of Jews applauded a Nazi.” (laughs)                                                            


AD: That must have been tough. We can certainly see that passion on screen, the love that’s gone into the series, not just in Dr Who terms but it’s a stunning piece of TV in any terms.

I know its great, like each episode is a mini feature film. In fact Billie Piper & Christopher Ecclestone are up for best actor and best actress in the national TV awards, in the UK, their nominations were just put out the other day so, we’ll see how all that goes, its just been phenomenally successful.

AD: So, you leaving the UK at a young age, as you did, were you able to keep up with Dr who, Did you still have the chance to follow it as a youngster?

Oh yeah, in America Dr Who was played in marathon episodes during Sunday nights between 11o’clock and 1.30am and I used to stay up and watch them. It was more important for me to watch Dr Who than it was for me to study for my spelling test the next morning.

AD: Ditto, I can empathise with that.

I’m not condoning that but you know, I would go in the car the next day, going to school and be cramming for these spelling tests; consequently, I’m a terrible speller!

AD: Well, who needs to spell!

But as Capt. Jack I don’t need to spell (laughs)

AD: Exactly! Leaving the UK quite young and living in the US for a good part of your life… do you feel more American or more British?

Its kind of an unfair question to ask because I do feel equal with both, I’m an American citizen and I’m a British subject, I have 2 passports and I’m very fortunate to have that. I would say my homeland is Scotland, and I live in London, but my family live in the US so you can see I am kind of torn between the two. My partner & I live in a really nice home in London and we have a home in LA and we also have one in the mid west of America, so we’ve kind of put our bases and our homes in the places that we really love. In fact my partner’s mother grew up in Sydney,  so we’re possibly gonna be lookin for a little pad down under there and (attempt at Aussie accent) “Put a little shrimp on the barbie for me”.

AD: Its actually prawn! Shrimp is an American term!! So you might be looking for a place on Bondi beach eh?

Ahh yeah, but I don’t know if I’ll be having the swim suit pulled right up the crack of my butt!

AD: Go for boardies it’s a better look (laughs)

AH: Have you been out to Australia before?

I have not, no, and it’s a place that I’ve always wanted to go. I think its John Ford who is a musical theatre producer down there, in fact he’s here at the moment. He’s in London and he’s seeing (my cabaret show at) Pizza on the Park and he’s been wanting to produce something with me in Australia for quite a while, but we’ve just never found the right vehicle for it. But now that Dr Who has taken off with force and is doing very well in Australia, I don’t see any reason not to even just come over to kind of just walk around the streets and go “hey”, you never know you might see me down there.

AD: Do you find a major difference between the way Americans and Brits think?

Well you know a lot of people say the British are more reserved and da da da, but funnily enough that might be changing at the moment. I think the Americans might be becoming more conservative and the Brits less conservative; it just kinda goes with the times you know. I love things about both of the countries and both of the peoples. I have the beauty of the 2 passports… when I get tired of one I go to the other.

AD: Yes indeed if you’re going to be torn it’s a nice way to be torn isn’t it?

It absolutely is, I’m really very, very lucky and that’s the way I look at it… I have the privilege, if something doesn’t gel right with me in one place, I go to the other.

AD: Are you a strong Scottish nationalist? Were you in favour of, for instance, the Scottish Parliament?

Hmmm… now we’re getting political! You know if Scotland wants their own parliament, then their taxes should go and pay for that parliament; I don’t feel that the English taxes should pay for the Scottish parliament. That’s my belief.  Because I have no vote in Scotland to vote their MP’s,  if I’m living in England, why should my taxes pay for their parliament? And plus the building is hideous! It cost way too much money, it went over budget, it’s just a travesty! You know, Sean Connery’s very much into that, and I don’t agree with England taking a lot of things away from Scotland and if Scotland wants to be its own country then… recognise it with its own government, but allow them to support themselves.

AD: Getting back to Dr who, the show will probably give u a lot more exposure to possibly a younger gay audience, as its fanbase does seem to have a higher than average proportion of gay fans. What’s going on with that??

I don’t know what it is about Dr Who (but) this’d be my theory why Dr Who has such a big gay following. I think its because the Doctor himself is a single man, who travels throughout time and picks up people who were left astray and people who were different, and people who had issues and problems. I think that’s why the gay community in the 70’s and 80’s connected with that, because we were always plumbed in our heads that we were different, we were outcasts, and that’s what the Doctor does, he takes in the outcasts and I think that’s why it gelled so much. Also now Russell has picked up on that theme even more and Russell’s writing the modern way for Dr who that includes and encapsulates every body, so that’s why I think that so many men have connected with it.

AD: Would you say YOU’VE reached gay icon status yet?

Oooh I dunno, that’s for you guys, you know for the ‘people’ and the press to decide. If I’m a gay icon then I’m a gay icon, if I’m a straight icon, I’m a little bent straight icon! (laughs) I just like to think of myself as making people happy and I don’t wanna be pigeon holed. The worst thing that we- I say we, I mean myself and people in the gay community- can do, and theres nothing bad with being a gay icon don’t get me wrong, but we wanna keep our people in the limelight, able to be diversified and sort of bleed into the other cultures. That’s the only way we can spread our, in a way, our message that we’re not freaks, we’re not people who should be locked up; we have contributions to make to society and we are human beings and individuals that need to be respected and the only way we’ll do that is if we allow our artists and our politicians and everything to bleed into the other communities. Also I would say that the pink pound is very powerful. If we choose to buy things and to support organisations and groups that support our causes then we should do that; if we find that people are being homophonic and their companies are homophonic then stop buying their products. And they’ll feel the pinch quite quickly.

AD: It’s the only language that really talks isn’t it?

It is, its about money. Our world unfortunately, its about money and like I said the pink pound is really powerful and we have control over that; you know I went into a hotel, my partner and I, we’d been together for 13 years, and we went into a hotel and they actually wouldn’t let us stay. This is in Brighton of all places which is a gay area, and they wouldn’t give us a room together because the hotel did not condone “that type” of behaviour, they said.

AD: Really, how long ago was this?

This was about 4 or 5 years ago. I wrote a letter to the head of the hotel company, and I made it clear that when I was on television I was going to speak ill of this hotel chain, but I got a very nice letter back from him and he said he researched who the person was and found out it was that persons opinion, not the hotels, so I did get a letter of apology. But I was ready to go on a campaign for people, gay people in particular, to stop using that chain of hotels; and straight people! You know, come on! I said to the guy at the hotel desk, “you mean to tell me if I walked in here with a woman, you would give me a room?” I said, “but you don’t know if that woman’s my wife, a hooker, my girlfriend, how can you make that judgement?? This guy might be my brother.” And he said “well (as if) you’re going to be sleeping in the same bed as your brother.” I said, “Like you’ve never slept in the same bed with your brother before??”

AD: Well good on  you! I don’t think any hotels in Brighton would get away with that now. There’d be a riot!

Of  course there would  be a riot, I’m sure there would be… So yeah, if I’m an icon I’m an icon, and I’m proud to be one.

AH: Well, as I’ve been reading recently and it keeps coming up, that there’s an honesty to your performances and that seems to be coming across in the reviews and interviews. When we talk about you as a gay icon, and heaven forbid that we should label you, but I think its really important to see someone so well balanced, so well grounded in the gay community who’s able to have a career and have it all.

Well, I love the fact that you said that and you know I don’t mind to a certain extent being a role model for young gay men & women because it is difficult when they’re struggling to come to terms with themselves. For years we’ve all been told- and people will understand this who have been in my situation-  for years we’ve been told through the media and community that we’re bad, there’s something wrong with us, and there’s not, there’s nothing wrong with us. We are perfectly good people, and I’m not saying that I’m perfectly balanced, you said that yourself, but I’m not saying that. I have issues, I have problems, I have troubles, like anybody else, I have my ups and downs, but the fact is that you just have to get on with it, you can’t dwell on things too much. You’ve been dealt the hand, I’m made this way for a reason, you know… someone actually said once to a friend of mine, “it’s a mistake! God has made a mistake when he made gay people.” You know, come on! That’s a terrible thing, that’s a terrible thing to put in somebody’s head! And we’re not! We were made for a reason, there’s a reason why we’re put on this planet and we’ve just gotta find it, and you know mine is to perform. (laughs) Mines to be FABULOUS and perform…


AH: in a kilt!

In a kilt yeah,  I love my kilt! I wore my kilt to my high school prom; I got dumped by the girl who I was going with and I told her to her face on that day when she dumped me,  I said, “you know what? One day you will regret this.” I said “think how I feel. I have to go home and tell my family that I was dumped.”

I said “its not because you wanna go with your ex- boyfriend or whatever“, I said, “its because I’m wearing a kilt and you can’t deal with that! Because I’ll look better in a dress then you will!”

AH: It sounds like you’ve been very fortunate to have a supportive partner and a supportive family with all the travelling, odd hours etc. involved in show business. It sounds like family is a big part of your life.

Well it is; I think family is important. I am fortunate that my family have been behind me a lot, I know there’s a lot of people in the industry who’s family’s turn on them but again you know I just couldn’t just see myself sitting behind a desk doing desk work. It would be a waste of a gift that I’ve been  given by whatever.. .if you believe in Jesus, God, whatever, somebody has given me a gift and I need to use it. I need to use it to my best ability and using the gifts that you’ve been given is a way to celebrate the person that you are and also that gift. My family have been behind me, my nieces and nephews, my partner Scott’s been there all the time, my friends are behind me and the thing is people who disagree with things or don’t like what I do, to be honest with you, they’re really not people that I would probably want to get to know better or spend time with.  I’m not saying that my friends and family sometimes don’t disagree with  me, of course we have disagreements, but we talk about ‘em and work them out. For instance the other night my partner Scott came to see the first cabaret and he had a comment about the show and said the first number and second number don’t run smoothly.  And he’s an architect, he’s not in the business! He said it kinda jarred us because we didn’t know that you were going to be making fun of yourself so quickly and having fun. He said we didn’t know how to react, and I took that on board but I didn’t change the show yet because I didn’t agree with him at that point;  until my agent then saw it and he said the exact same thing that Scott said, and once I had the 2 opinions, that was it. I knew that my look at it was wrong and if 2 people have said the exact same thing, its time for me to change it, and I have to fix that, so u know they’re not all yes men around me. I say ‘yes men’,  I should say yes women! That sounds a little odd!!  (laughs) I got all “yes men” around me and they’re really good lookin and hunky!! (laughs).  So I do have disagreements but that’s part of having a good family unit around you, they will tell you when you’re wrong and you will listen to them; a lot of other people would be sycophantic and just (say) “oh it was great, it was great, it was great”. You know what, that’s boring!

AD: When you first read the Dr Who scripts which are excellent drama on many levels, did you think that perhaps they were even TOO deep/ emotional for Dr Who and that fans might get turned off?

Um, no because you gotta remember that, quoting a line from anything goes, “times have changed” and a lot of people were saying the scripts were too heavy for kids.  Kids are not that dumb!  Kids don’t need to see people being bashed over the head all the time, (having) something dropping on them and smashing them. Kids can think, kids deal with issues, you know kids lose parents, kids have fights at school, kids have to deal with the whole dynamics of society… they deal with it every day. We have to treat them like individuals and people, and that’s what made this series of Dr who so successful, because Russell writes for families, to create discussions and to talk about things and to raise issues and that’s the way he writes. The BBC took a risk, it was a risk to do… in the UK, Dr who has wiped all the other programming off of other channels.  They’ve actually pulled the programming because Dr who has done so phenomenally well!

AD: Have the fan encounters started for you yet?

Oh my god, I’ve done a convention… I was asked to do a convention just recently in New Zealand.  I did a convention in Earls Court in London, I’ve been asked to do one in Los Angeles in March next year which I’ve agreed to. They’re coming in left right and centre and the fan mail actually started when people heard that I’d got the job. (So, via) leaks, it started a year ago before Dr Who had even started filming, while I was still doing Anything Goes, and on a daily basis I get probably about 10 to 15 fan letters passed from my agency to my house,  so… its changed my life, and I’m excited about that!

AD: Any freaky fan letters?

Oh yeah,  there’s always freaky fan letters, but I don’t want to emulate them because I don’t want to lead them on. But yes there are and generally when I start reading it and it gets a little freaky I pass it to Scott and Scott reads it and then I’ll throw it away. Either that or he’ll get their address and go kick their asses!

AD: If we can get a convention up here in Oz will you come and see us?

I certainty will, and if it happens then you guys just have to notify my agent and, you know give me plenty of time because, I kid you not, things are booking up very, very quickly.

AD: Yay! That’s what we want to hear! So do we see much of Captain Jack in season 2?

My official answer (laughs)…

AD: Ooohh don’t give me official, give me a scoop!

…tell you what, Captain Jack will be back!

AH: Jacks back!

Jacks back, and we don’t know exactly when.

AD: Well as long as he’s back that’s the main thing.

Oh yeah, yeah, its an exciting time and like you guys down there on Bondi beach, you get on the board and you ride that wave and that’s exactly what I’m doing.

AH: I think you’ll have to bring Scott out, and spend about a month out here, do a convention, do your cabaret show and really get a feel for Australia…

AD: and buy a house!

And buy a house and walk along the beach in our bathing suits and we can be photographed and put in FABULOUS magazines!

Well John you have made it into at least 1 fabulous magazine here in Oz! We give a big thank you to John Barrowman for his time.